Empowering Individual Worth & Competitive Kindness; Guest - Jamie Boggs, VP Athletics GCU

This episode focuses on empowering individual worth of our teammates, a pillar of Competitive Kindness. Rob Clark hosts guest Jamie Boggs (VP for Athletics at Grand Canyon University) who was recently named 2025-26 NACDA Athletic Director of the Year and secured membership for GCU in the Mountain West Conference.

Jamie shares her insights on building an effective team, the people she surrounds herself with to be an effective leader, driving individual growth while thriving as a team and how to lead the right way.  She also offers perspective on how intercollegiate athletics can be more effective storytellers. And even throws in a Mary J. Blige reference.

The movement continues…

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:06

Welcome to the Competitive Kindness Podcast. I'm your host, Rob Clark. What if the way you lead could change lives, not just results? We're building a movement, proving you can compete relentlessly for championships while elevating everyone around you. This is your competitive edge. Each episode will share stories and strategies to help you make an impact that lasts. If you're ready to win the right way, you're in the right place. Now let's get rolling. Alright,

Empowering Individual Worth

SPEAKER_01 0:47

let's talk real for a moment. Have you ever worked with someone and quietly wondered, do they have any clue what they're doing? Or how did they get this job? We've all been there, but sometimes the issue isn't the person. Sometimes they're just sitting in the wrong seat on the bus. In the Energy Bus book, John Gordon shared how every organization is headed somewhere, and the ride feels full of purpose, momentum, and positive energy. Or it's as brutal as a family road trip where dad forgot to pack snacks, the GPS is broken, there are no restroom stops anywhere nearby, and the kids are chirping in the back repeatedly saying, Are we there yet? Are we there yet? And then there's what competitive kindness leaders understand. It's not just about getting the right people on the bus, it's about getting them in the right seat and then empowering their individual worth. But here's where competitive kindness takes it deeper. You can't put people in the right seat if you actually don't know who your people are. Not just their title, not just their resume, not just whether they can survive a staff meeting, really get to know them. What's their why? What gives them energy? What drains them? How do they think? How do they communicate? Where do they naturally thrive? And this isn't soft leadership, it's competitive kindness leadership. Gallup's research shows that leaders drive a majority of team engagement, and people who feel known through meaningful conversations perform better. Why? Because people do better when they feel seen. And this is where Ned Herman's whole brain theory becomes so practical. Herman shared that people primarily function in four cognitive methods. Some people are analytical, some plan and organize sequentially, some are interpersonal relationship builders, and some are big picture visionaries. Here's the problem. Too many leaders tried to lead everyone the way they like to be led themselves. But not everybody's wired like you. And that's a good thing. Because if your whole team thinks exactly like you do, then congrats, you're driving a bus that can't change lanes. A one-trick pony. The visionary may be incredible at creating the future, but may need help remembering Tuesday's deadline. The detail-driven person may build systems that save everyone, but may break into a cold sweat when you need to adapt a plan on the fly. The relational leader may hold the culture together, but may need connection to do their best work. Different doesn't mean deficient. It just means different. And sometimes what we call underperformance is actually misalignment. We label people too quickly. They're not leadership material. But what if the better question is, do I really understand this person well enough to lead them effectively? Because when people feel known, trust goes up. When people feel understood, engagement goes up. When people are aligned with the right role, performance goes up. So here's a challenge for you. Before you write someone off, get curious, ask better questions, listen longer, pay attention, find out what puts wind in their sails and what drains their tank. Because sometimes the best thing you can do as a leader isn't to remove someone from the bus, it's to move them to a better seat. And that's competitive kindness. Seeing people clearly, valuing them deeply, and positioning them wisely. Because when you do that, you don't just build better teams, you build better people, and that's how we win the right way. Today's guest is Jamie Boggs, Vice President of Athletics at Grand Canyon University, and the newly named 2025-26 NACTA Athletic Director of the Year. A Phoenix native, attorney, and trailblazing leader, Jamie became GCU's first female athletic director and has transformed Lopes athletics into a national model of success. With leadership experience at Duke, Georgia State, where she helped start football and move from FCS to FBS status in the Sunbelt Conference, and now Grand Canyon, she has overseen historic competitive growth, championship success, academic excellence, and GCU's bold transition into the Mountain West Conference. Grounded in faith, strategic vision, and a deeply people-centered approach, Jamie Boggs is redefining excellence in collegiate athletics.

Guest: Jamie Boggs

SPEAKER_01 5:54

Jamie, welcome to the Competitive Kindness Podcast.

SPEAKER_00 5:57

Thank you. Thanks for having me. It's been a it's been a while.

SPEAKER_01 6:00

It has. I'm sitting back thinking, wow, we started football at Georgia State together. One of the heaviest lifts I know I've been involved with.

SPEAKER_00 6:09

It was, but they're doing well, right? They are. They got their FBS status and doing well.

SPEAKER_01 6:14

It's incredible to see how they're doing, and it's so fun to be together here. So for all of our listeners here, everyone has a story. So what's a moment or an experience that shaped who you are today?

SPEAKER_00 6:27

I consider every experience, um, every day a moment that shapes me. My parents were very academic focused, very much um, very much focused on education. I think just growing up in that type of environment, you're always curious. You always want to learn. And so every day I learn something from someone. It could be from our university president to uh my friend Jerry, who is the security guard, very bright security guard at our building. I learned life lessons from him, uh, things about people all the time. So every day I'm shaped by the people around me. And I think that's just from growing up with the mindset of you can learn from anyone.

SPEAKER_01 7:08

From your background, what got you into leadership and what made you want to pursue this path?

SPEAKER_00 7:14

Yeah, I mean I grew up watching a lot of sports in Phoenix. If you were, if you grew up in Phoenix, you were a die hard signs fan. It's just the way it was back in the day. And it's what my family did. You know, we it was kind of what connected us, it was being around sports all the time. And so I had a love for playing and watching sports. And um once I got into law school, um, I knew it's not what I wanted to do. And the only thing I was passionate about was sports. And so that's how I really started my path into becoming an athletic director. I never thought about becoming a leader or an athletic director. I just thought about what do I do to work really hard and serve others? And that's how I was raised. It's whatever you do, make sure you're doing to help others. And I think that was really the start of leadership. But as far as the goal of becoming an athletic director, I never thought about it. It was always what can I do to serve others?

SPEAKER_01 8:08

This is a multifaceted question. As an athletic director, you lead so many different constituency bases. So, from this perspective, you lead coaches, staff, student athletes, and others. How do you drive your teams to elite performance while valuing the individuals on those teams?

SPEAKER_00 8:27

It's really part of our culture, part of our university culture, and we've aligned with our university. It's a culture of continuous improvement. And we've done a lot as a university and as an athletics program. We've as a university, we went from 900 students to 20, almost 26,000 students in a very short period of time and at a time when enrollment's dropping, especially for private schools. And as an athletics program, we've only been division one for about 13, 13 or 14 years, and postseason eligible for about, I think, nine of those years. And so we've already won 78 championships. We've advanced in the NAA tournament, and um, we've had national rankings, but we never are satisfied. Whatever we accomplished the year before is our ground, not our ceiling. And so it's that mentality that whatever we've accomplished, we're not gonna sit there and pat ourselves on the back. We're gonna always look for what's next and what we're gonna do next. And so this year we surpassed our fundraising with our annual fund. We've done well in academics. I mean, a lot of record-breaking things this past year. And that's again sets the floor for next year. So our culture is one thing, knowing that the expectations is we always look for how do we get better no matter how much we've accomplished. But it also comes down to the people. We hire really good people, and we are very clear with our expectations, and we have a lot of communication. And if we're not meeting somewhere in certain areas, it's just a conversation of let's be really understanding what our expectations are and take it to that next level. And then give them to the tools to take it to that next level. So there's an overarching cultural component, but it's also an individual component in knowing your people as well.

SPEAKER_01 10:12

Do you have any stories of how you've provided those tools for someone that hadn't been successful and they ended up thriving?

SPEAKER_00 10:20

I do, and I have several of those. Um, and sometimes it's just a matter of you can always send them to different leadership or management um uh programs, which we've done, and we we do that actually annually for several of our people, but sometimes it's just a matter of getting to know them. And when I say tools, it might be, hey, you really excel in this part of your job. You have, I'm trying to be, you know, not reveal any personnel conversations or make anyone identifiable, but struggle in this a little bit. What if I know someone that really likes this part of your job and wants to grow in that area? And it kind of makes sense. So I'm gonna move this part of your responsibility there, but then I need you to go super, super over the top on making sure this part of your job is you blow your numbers out of the water. And it was a point where I had to have that conversation because it wasn't, it wasn't going well. And since then, that person has blown the numbers out of the water and is incredibly happy because I looked for this person's strengths. And it is not me. I mean, the person pulled through, the person had the strengths, the person had all the tools, but sometimes it was just a matter of it would give a little bit of management training, lots of feedback, and then adapting to the person and not necessarily making the person adapt to that specific role. And it worked in this case.

SPEAKER_01 12:01

With that approach to ensure that people feel a part of the team, what are some of your systems or habits that you have to help your people feel seen, heard, and valued?

SPEAKER_00 12:16

There's as far as systems, overall we have a general policy of open door. Everyone on our senior staff is open to meeting with anyone. We don't care where you are in the chain of command, and we don't really care about chain of command, but everyone has to feel that they can come into your office and have a conversation or give feedback or just to get to know you. And that is that feeling is very clear among our department. So that's one thing. There's also, it's funny, you and I both worked for Cheryl Levick, right? And we do and you learn a lot of like is it systems from her. And one of the things that at the time I was like, what does that mean? Back then when we were transitioning from FCS to FBS, you remember how busy it was. I mean, it was crazy. And I just wild. I could never leave my office because I was just doing so much work. And she was, she came and she's like, Tammy, you need to go meet the new football coach. You need to go out, get out of your office. And she said, You need to practice walking management. And I'm like, What is walking management? And she's like, you need to put it on your calendar. You need to take time and use that time to go out and connect with people. And I use that to this day because when you're in that leadership role, people are a little bit more intimidated. I, you know, we don't think about it because you would talk to anyone. But I thought about it. I'm like, I use it. And it's when people see you as in that leadership role, it might be just intimidating. So you have to be more intentional about going out there and being in their space. And so I still to this day will walk through the offices. Now it's been transporter season's taking a lot of that time away, but I'll go out into the offices, say hello to them in their offices. I'll stop by a practice, I'll do whatever I can to get outside of my comfort zone and to get into their comfort zone. So they feel, you know, oh, she really does want to know me. I also make sure that I am in a lot of meetings and it does consume my time. But I'm in meetings that either sometimes I lead or sometimes I just sit back and I'll just give feedback. And when people give feedback or share ideas, I make sure that they feel that they can give those ideas, whether they're good or bad, without criticizing them. So their opinion, their feedback matters. And I think it's really important to make sure people in the room feel like what they contribute matters. Whether you use it or not, whether you use the idea or not, it still matters.

SPEAKER_01 14:56

In this process of getting that feedback and feeling valued, has there been a time when someone who operates differently than you do has helped you become a better leader and teammate?

SPEAKER_00 15:09

That's also every day because I don't hire yes people. I don't want people that just do what I want them to do. I like people that bring different ideas to the table. And if you look at my entire leadership team, our leadership team, they're very different in how they operate and how they think than what I do. And it makes me a better leader. My number two, Nico Heya, he has so much attention to detail and he always thinks about and brings to the table, well, here's and this is a good thing. Well, here's what you, here's why that might not be able to happen. Here's why you can't do that. And some people might not like that because you know, when you give an idea, you want it to go, you think it's a great idea, and someone's saying, whoa, whoa, whoa. But it's a good thing because he catches things that a lot of people miss. Just that it's not a pessimist, it's just it's an attention to detail of what all the things that could go wrong. And he's caught so many things because of that. I have another person who he is just so empathetic in how he manages his team. And when he communicates that's just with so much empathy, and it's just it's such a good reminder for all of us that it's the people that matter the most. And we have to think, put ourselves in their shoes when we're having conversations with them. I have a marketing person, and she is the most customer service-friendly person I've ever known. She always thinks about, well, how would the customer receive this if we make this change? And it's something, you know, we're type A, right? When you're in these leadership films, you're type A and you're like, let's go, let's get it done. But she'll say, wait, but what if the customer thinks this? Or how are we going to communicate to them that this is going to happen? It's just all those things that challenge me so much, they make me a better leader. So it's everyone, and that's the way I like to hire.

SPEAKER_01 17:04

As you surround yourself with great people, what's something that leaders can do today to unlock the potential of the people on their team?

SPEAKER_00 17:15

It's making every effort to get to know them. And when people work directly with you, people that report to you, that's a lot easier. You know their work skill sets, you know what they're strong at, what maybe they need some support in, um, you know, their work product. But as maybe it's their reports two levels away that you don't get to know as much. But that's where the intentionality comes. And I might ask feedback and constantly ask feedback. Well, how is so-and-so doing with this team, or how is this person connecting with everyone or servicing their team? And I really want to know how everyone in that department is functioning. Then when you do see them in maybe a department-wide meeting, then you have some things to talk about, some things to connect them with. But it really does take a lot of intentionality to get to know your department, especially when we're 100 and 140, I think, on our department. We're pretty large. So it is hard to get to know everybody, but you really have to make that effort and find a way to get to know them in any way you can.

SPEAKER_01 18:15

Accountability is critical in leadership. Yet at the same time, accountability has become an excuse for many leaders to be oppressive. How do you hold your people to a standard of excellence while upholding their dignity?

SPEAKER_00 18:28

Anyone who is being oppressive, that is not accountability in any way to me. Accountability is necessary for the development of the person. But if in any way that person or there's any intent to make that person feel badly or feel emotionally that you're personally attacking them, that's not accountability. That's just being a jerk. You know, it's just being a jerk. And so if you have good relationships and are very transparent with the people that you work with, any type of feedback or constructive criticism shouldn't be more than a conversation. And I always make sure I invite conversation back. Well, here's where I think you need to improve, but want to hear your perspective as well. Because you don't know, you might have missed something that we don't know about because we're not in their world day to day. But any form of where it feels like oppressiveness to the person you're talking to, that's just a jerk. It has nothing to do with accountability. Yeah, I don't ever see how that makes things better. When people have the management style of, hey, you need to walk on eggshells all the time. When people don't feel they can freely express themselves, express their opinions. I don't see that as affected. Now, at the same time, sometimes you have to light the fire. Um, and when people get a little bit too comfortable with you, that does happen. When you have my type of style, people can get overly comfortable. So there are times when you do have to light the fire, and and you know, you do have to raise your voice a little bit. I never yell, I don't yell at anyone. But sometimes, guys, this is urgent. Okay. We can't, you know, sometimes you have to do that, but I don't find that to be oppressive. I think you just have to really know your people, make sure they trust you. And, you know, like I said, if they know that you care about them and you have that relationship, raising your voice a little isn't gonna harm that relationship. Um, and maybe that is true with the side people have that have style as well, that they have people walk on eggshells, but I've never found that to be effective.

SPEAKER_01 20:34

We're gonna shift gears here. College athletics is having an identity crisis right now. What are some of your greatest concerns and what recommendations do you have for the integrity of college athletics?

SPEAKER_00 20:48

I don't believe we're having an identity crisis. I think we're having a storytelling crisis. I think we all know who we are. We all know why we do what we do. We know our investment in student athletes, we know why 94% of college athletic programs run in a deficit or lose money. There's a very small percentage that actually make money because we see the student athletes every day. We see the leaders they become as they grow. This is truly a co-curricular educational opportunity for student athletes. And we know that. Sometimes we assume that everyone knows or sees what we see, but that's not the case. And we have to be more aggressive with telling the story of why we do what we do and the stories of our student athletes. So I don't think that who we are has changed. We have people that are third parties who really don't have any stake in the future of college athletics that are unfortunately doing a great job of trying to tell our story. And we need to do a better job of that. So I think our crisis really is more we are not staying. In front of our story. I do think that's starting to change, but we really need to do more of it as an industry.

SPEAKER_01 22:07

All right. We're going to shift to a different segment here. I like to call this the fast and friendly five. So I'm going to ask you five quick questions, no long pauses, just gut answers. All right. You ready? Yep. All right. Number one, your go-to hype music or artist

Fast & Friendly Five

SPEAKER_01 22:24

or song when you need a boost.

SPEAKER_00 22:26

Anything 90s, RB, or hip hop.

SPEAKER_01 22:30

If you had to go with one, which would you go with?

SPEAKER_00 22:33

Uh Mary J. Blige.

SPEAKER_01 22:35

Strong. Strong. All right, number two, your go-to movie when you need an inspiration.

SPEAKER_00 22:43

So easy. Legally blonde.

SPEAKER_01 22:46

That's strong. From the lawyer reference, too. That's even better.

SPEAKER_00 22:50

It is. She's really girly. She loves clothes. But she is a smart attorney. I connect well with her.

SPEAKER_01 23:00

All right, number three, one or two books that have impacted who you are.

SPEAKER_00 23:05

I the Bible. It's always going to be the Bible. Every time I get asked that question, my answer will stay the same. It's the Bible.

SPEAKER_01 23:12

And then outside of Holy Scripture, where do you go?

SPEAKER_00 23:16

So here's my here's my answer that I'm currently reading a book right now, and I can't say what it is because it's it's still being written by Bob O'Dean. Um, but for the most part, you know, there's this whole saying that all leaders are readers. And my thought on that is how many of those are moms, working moms? So outside of the Bible, I do not hardly read anything. I don't have the time.

SPEAKER_01 23:44

Awesome. Number four, the best leadership advice you've received.

SPEAKER_00 23:51

Adapt to your people.

SPEAKER_01 23:56

Can you expand on that a little bit?

SPEAKER_00 23:57

Yeah, if you always go in and think it has to be done my way, this way, you're not really serving the people you work with. And if you really want to get things done, you have to meet them where they are. Maybe that's a different mentality than a lot of people have. But it's it's how you get buy-in, it's how you get people to trust you. And I think those two things are really critical to making sure that you can move your department forward.

SPEAKER_01 24:23

Great. Number five, who's a leader or a coach who has shaped you and why?

SPEAKER_00 24:30

So many, but I still go back to the foundation, and that's my parents. And they've always they came here from another country and they had nothing. They had a suitcase and a few hundred dollars in their pocket. They knew no one. And no matter what they went through, um, you know, my dad became a surgeon, a brain surgeon. He raised my mom, raised three kids on her own, not speaking the language well, didn't know anyone, but they always taught us uh work hard and be grateful. Work hard and be grateful. And I think if you ask me who I am as a leader, those are the two things, two, maybe two of the three things that they're going to be serving others that that they have instilled in me and um they are who I am.

SPEAKER_01 25:11

Incredible. Jamie, we're coming to a close here, but before we do, could you please offer our listeners

How to Lead the Right Way

SPEAKER_01 25:18

some advice on how to lead the right way?

SPEAKER_00 25:21

It really goes down to the foundation of serving others and what does that mean when you say serving others? It is really investing in them and getting to know them. How can you really help them grow? It's not just about what are, you know, what are your performance, what are your results? Those things matter, but what are you doing to help them be successful in their role? And, you know, just the overall picture, even bigger picture than that, are the understanding that what you as a department can do to serve the community, to serve people around you. It's just that service mindset that really, I think, separates GCU and who we are as a department from all others.

SPEAKER_01 26:00

Jamie, it's been awesome having you on the Competitive Kindness Podcast. Thank you so much for your time. Love watching you from afar and seeing the incredible success that you're having right now. So thank you again.

SPEAKER_00 26:12

Thanks, Rob. Same with you. Incredible success for you too. I love that you're doing this podcast. It's a really good thing.

SPEAKER_01 26:22

Thanks for tuning in. If today's episode got you fired up, please check out the book Competitive Kindness, Winning the Right Way. Available on Amazon. Join the competitive kindness movement by sharing this with your friends, family, and colleagues. Also, I would love to connect with you, so please share your thoughts or stories with me on LinkedIn or on X. My handle there is at Rob Clark10. Remember, dare to lead differently. Dare to be kind.